Yaa Rabbi (O My Lord!) What did I get myself into?! lol

I’m with Holly and Emma – duties call. I step away from here and the comments are all over the place. I love it – keep it up- but don’t expect me to be able to keep up with or respond to each point. These religious threads are getting a lot of views even though only a handful of people are responding to them. I pray they are beneficial to all who read them…aameen!

I’m thinking that we need some type of order here, but that will be difficult because we still keep coming back to the same points and as a Muslim trying to follow the methodology of all of the Prophets of God – then I must keep on pushing Tawheed  [the fundamental principle of Islam on which all other principles, rules and pillars are based. The aspect of Tawheed emanates from the Shahada “There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is His servant and Messenger” . It is this declaration that forms the dividing line between Iman (belief) and Kufr (disbelief).]
before I can fully discuss other issues. Calling to Allaah (ad-Da’wah ilallaah) is the way of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) and his followers, as Allah, the Most High, says:

Say, O Muhammad (sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam): This is my way, I call to Allaah (i.e to the testification that none has the right to be worshipped except Allaah, alone, with no partner) upon certain knowledge – I, and those who follow me. I declare Allaah free and far removed from all that they associate as partners with Him, and I am free of those who worship anything else along with Him. [Soorah Yoosuf 12:108]

However, I do see that pushing Tawheed to some people – falls on deaf ears. The problem as I see it is that even though Jesus pushed Tawheed to his true followers – the concept of the innovated Trinity has blinded them to the truth. What is the truth? Muslims believe that the truth is evident and clear. Christians believe that truth is what you want to believe based on ‘faith’. Muslims know the Quran is true. Christians accept the Bible as the word of God despite the fact that even Christian Scholars refute the status of the New Testament as an inspired scripture – even comments and footnotes in the various different bible versions show evidence of tampering and fraud, not to mention doubt over who the author of the Gospels are. We have an obvious difference in authority.

So the difference in Christianity and Islam comes down to a difference of authority and appeal to authority. The Christian wants to appeal to the Bible and the Muslim wants to appeal to the Quran. You can not stop by saying: This is true because me book say it is, and somebody else would say something else is true because my book says differently, you can not stop at that point, and the Quran does not. The Christians may point to some words that it is recorded Jesus said and say this proves my point. But the Muslim does not simply open his book and say: No, no the Quran says this, because the Quran does not simply deny something the Bible says and say something else instead. The Quran takes the form of a rebuttal, it is a guidance as the opening says (Huda lil mutakeen). So that for every suggestion that the Christian may say: My Bible say such and such, the Quran will not simply say: No that is not true, it will say: Do they say such and such then ask them such and such. You have for example the Ayah that compares Jesus and Adam. There are those who may say that Jesus must have been God (Son of God) because he had no father. He had a woman who was his mother, but there was no human father. It was God that gave him life, so he must have been God’s son. The Quran reminds the Christian in one short sentence to remember Adam – who was his father ? – and in fact, who was his mother ? He did not have a father either and in fact he did not have a mother, but what does that make him? So that the likeness of Adam is the likeness of Jesus, they were nothing and then they became something; that they worship God.

Quran Invites – Not Demands

So that the Quran does not demand belief – the Quran invites belief, and here is the fundamental difference. It is not simply delivered as: Here is what you are to believe, but throughout the Quran the statements are always: Have you O man thought of such and such, have you considered so and so. It is always an invitation for you to look at the evidence; now what do you believe ?

Special Pleading of the Bible

The citation of the Bible very often takes the form of what is called in Argumentation: Special Pleading. Special Pleading is when implications are not consistent. When you take something and you say: Well that must mean this, but you don’t use the same argument to apply it to something else. To give an example, I have seen it in publications many times, stating that Jesus must have been God because he worked miracles. In other hand we know very well that there is no miracle ever worked by Jesus that is not also recorded in the Old Testament as worked by one of the prophets. You had amongst others, Elijah, who is reported to have cured the leper, raise the dead boy to life and to have multiplied bread for the people to eat – three of the most favourite miracles cited by Jesus. If the miracles worked by Jesus proved he was God, why don’t they prove Elijah was God ? This is Special Pleading, if you see what I mean. The implications are not consistent. If this implies that then in that case it must also imply the same thing. We have those who would say Jesus was God because he was taken up in the heaven. But the Bible also says the a certain Einah did not die he was taken up into the heaven by God. Whether it is true or not, who knows, but the point is if Jesus being taken up proves he is God, why does not it prove Einah was God? The same thing happened to him.

The truth is that the Christians are basing their belief on blind faith and are  avoiding the facts. One of the facts that they are ignoring, is that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a true Messenger of God and that the Quran was revealed to him. We believe that the one who disbelieves in Jesus is not a Muslim, because the person who disbelieves in one the prophets disbelieves in all of them. So Muslims believe in Jesus and in his message. His message was one with all the other messengers. In the Quran, it is said that God never sent a messenger to mankind except that he was sent with one warning: Worship Allâh alone.

Muhammad (pbuh) said:

“I am the most worthy of Jesus son of Mary in this life and in the hereafter.” They (companions) asked: “Why is that O Messenger of Allâh (sala Allâhu ‘alihi was-Salaam)?”

He (sala Allâhu ‘alihi was-Salaam) replied:

“The Prophets are paternal (bloodline) brethren (from fathers side). Their mothers may be different (races, peoples, bloodlines) yet their Deen is always one (Islam).” Reported by Bukhari and Muslim.

Therefore this necessitates that he who disputes the validity of one of the true Prophets and Messengers has in fact reviled and disputed all of them. One cannot believe in Muhammad (pbuh) and not believe in Jesus (pbuh). Equally, one cannot truly believe in Jesus and not believe in Muhammad (pbuh). To truly accept one Prophet or Messenger necessitates the acceptance of all those who came before him and all who will come after him, ending with Muhammad (pbuh).

If you are objective in your readings, you will find the Truth. The Truth is that the Quran is the Book of Allah, the One and Only True God and Creator of all mankind. Muslims cannot be considered as believers unless we confirm that the Bible was originally from Almighty God. So this is not a point of discussion, in that we both agree. However, I highly recommend reading , Bible A Closer Look by Yusuf Estes – Former Christian – Muslim Chaplain

Introduction and Explanation of Purpose of This Research and Presentation

First of all, let me begin by saying that I am a former Christian, preacher, minister of music and organist for a long number of years in the Disciples of Christ Church, Baptist, Methodist churches and The Church of God. I totally and completely accepted the teachings and concepts of salvation within the Christian church many years ago. My parents were very religious and their parents were also very instrumental in building and supporting the work of the church throughout their entire lives. So, it is not my aim to discredit the efforts of those who came before me whatsoever. This is totally the opposite of my purpose in this presentation.

Second, I am still most active in the spreading of the True Word of God as much as HE will allow me to be. I have found that some of the teachings of the translations of the Bible contain errors and mistakes which must be examined and thought through so as to bring about a better understanding for both the Christians and the non-Christians, especially those of the Muslim (Islam) faith.

Third, I am presently an institutional chaplain and I hold the position of Delegate to the United Nations Peace Conference for the World’s Religious Leaders. As such I hold all the leaders of other religions in proper regard and with due respect. Many of my associates and co-workers are from the Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Hindu faiths.

Therefore, it is not my intention to cause people to loose their belief in God, His divinely-inspired prophets and messengers, or the holy scriptures that they brought. I humbly request all who read and study these pages to be considerate of those who are committed to believe in the scriptures of the Bible and not use this material as a tool for attacking and harming the faiths of others. The opposite is what I request the reader to do. Please take time to learn the materials and then share in a positive light with those whom you honestly feel can handle a discussion on this topic without being confrontational.

May Almighty God guide all of us the all truth, amen.

I try to be patient in these discussions but I would be lying if I said that they are not frustrating. I find myself wondering how can people be so blind, deaf, and dumb. Then I remember our (mankinds) open enemy. The one who knows he’s going to hell and has promised to ‘bring down’ as many as possible with him. I then realize how satan has manipulated the Christians!

It is obvious to anyone with reason that Satan has greatly manipulated these misled people (Christians). He called them and they responded to him; he befooled them and they obeyed him.
He manipulated them with regards to Allah, the Exalted and Most High.
He manipulated them with regards to Jesus (peace be upon him).
He manipulated them with regards to the cross and the worship of it.

He also manipulated them with regards to making pictures and statues in churches and then worshipping them, so you will not find one of their churches without the picture of Mary and Jesus, saints and other holy individuals and martyrs of theirs. Most of them prostrate to pictures and statues, and pray to them instead to Allah the Most High…

The typical example of what these polytheists are doing is like that of a servant of a king who entered upon a man, so the man jumped from his place, prostrated to the servant, worshipped him, and did to him what he was not supposed to do except to the king. Every rational person would consider him an ignorant and a fool because of what he did, since he did to the king’s servant what he was supposed to do only to the king, in terms of honoring, humbleness and humility.

It is well-known that what the servant did here is more likely to cause the king to hate him and look down upon him than to honor him and exalt his status.

This is the situation of one who prostrates to creation, or a picture of creation. This is because he resorted to prostration which is the greatest means of reaching the Lord’s pleasure. Such an action is not valid except for Allah, so there is no greater repulsiveness or injustice than doing it for a picture or statue of a servant and equalizing between Allah and His servant.

This is why Allah the Most High said,

  “Verily, shirk (polytheism, setting up partners with Allah) is a great injustice.” [Luqman: 33]  

Allah the Most High has created his worshippers prone to recognize ugliness in expressing exaltation, glorification, sumbisiveness and humility towards king’s slaves and servants (as such actions are usually done for the king).

So what is the situation of the one who shows this type of reverence to king’s enemies? For Satan is the enemy of Allah, and the polytheist is in reality setting Satan, not Allah’s prophets and righteous servants¸ as a partner with Allah. For the prophets and righteous servants have nothing to do with those who set them as partners with Allah; they are against them and the strongest in hatred of all people towards them. The polytheists, therefore, are only setting up as partners with Allah His enemies, and equalizing between them and Allah in worship, exaltation, prostration and humility.

This is why the invalidity and ugliness of polytheism is recognized by sound innate nature and reason, and this type of ugliness is recognized more clearly than its other types. [Holly this should answer your question about why Muslims find the concept of God scarificing Himself ‘horrible’]

The intent here was to mention Satan’s manipulation of these people in both the foundation and branches of their religion.

by Imâm Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah
From “Ighatul-Lahfaan min Masaa`id al-Shaytan” Translalated by Islaam.com

This post was much longer than I intended. I’m sure I still haven’t said all that I would like to convey. If there are any questions that anyone would like to ask about Islam, please use this thread to do so. There are several previous threads that are ‘interfaith’ discussion/debates where we learned about each others belief. I prefer that that not be carried over to this post and I am requesting that all comments be inquiries into Islam or related to Islam only.

Mu’aawiyyah radiallaahu anhu who said:
The Messenger of Allaah sallallaahu alaihi was sallam said, “He who Allaah wants good for He gives him understanding of the religion.”

So if they believe in the like of that which you believe, then they are rightly guided, but if they turn away, then they are only in opposition. So Allâh will suffice you against them. And He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower. (Al-Baqarah (2):137)

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